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Author Topic: N61 grief *updated with pics and video*  (Read 8459 times)

Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« on: March 29, 2010, 08:08:31 PM »
As a connoisseur of cheaper guitars and a fan of Nuno Bettencourt, I take it upon myself to buy cheap Nuno guitars when my wife let's me.  Don't even ask what I had to promise her to get my N4.  I own a very nice looking OK playing P2 and a horrible N61.  Looking at pictures of the awful N61's I noticed a problem on all of them that mine also had.  The tremolo is too close to the body!!!!  After I adjusted the intonation, I was unable to use the tremolo, the saddles would hit the body and make an awful popping noise.  The fix.  I took the things that go into the body that the things screw into out filled the holes with J.B. Weld and drilled new holes about 1/8 of an inch further away, put the tremolo back on, blocked it, tuned it up, adjusted the intonation and did at least 100 squealing dive bombs.  Any other N61 owners with this issue?

I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 08:46:20 PM by bionicduck »
 

Offline JoseI

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 07:26:10 AM »
please pics!!!!

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2xN2 '91-N2 '93-N3 custom-N4 Davies-N61-P290-D56-WM24-WT24V-Davies Tele and more Washburns...

Offline ncmreynolds

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 07:46:39 AM »
You moved the studs forward or backward from the neck? What part of the trem was hitting the body? Does it have the original trem?

Pictures would really help.

This really shouldn't be necessary it's a fairly fundamental part of the design of the guitar set by the scale length so if it were wrong on yours I'd expect it to be wrong on all of them.

Even on the shonkiest of cheap guitars they seem to manage to get this right.



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Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 08:09:46 AM »
I'll do pictures after work today, everyone can then see the s**ttiness of my work.  I moved the studs away from the neck, the saddles were hitting the edge of the body and this was after I took 3 inches of paint off the guitar.  It's almost like the route wasn't large enough even though it was very close to the pickguard.  Speaking of, I also had to make the route a little larger on the back edge/sides of the tremolo.  Everything is original.  Wouldn't that increase the scale and eff up the Buzz Feiten tuning??  After I got it all set up, I couldn't put it down, it plays great, the intonation is good, and the tremolo works how it should.

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I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.
 

Offline Gilbertfan

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 10:42:21 AM »
Sounds weird to me that saddles are hitting the body then you move the whole thing back? Were the saddles moved forward to alter intonation? I may be visualising this wrong but saddles were moved forward then teh whole trem has been moved back sure the intonation is latered in the process....I'll wait for photos with interest.
 

Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 06:01:51 PM »
You can see in this picture the tremolo is really close to the pickguard. Looking at the N4, there is space between the tremolo and the pickup, you can actually see the front of the adjustment studs. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yct6OlC0qWQ explains why I had to move the tremolo in some more detail, enjoy.


I unbelievably found this, this is what I was talking about.

And after.

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I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 08:44:48 PM by bionicduck »
 

Offline nkt1977

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 03:06:08 AM »
It is quite amazing to see someone build a whole guitar with such quality wood...it can be easily avoided by just a little more attention in the factory.
 

Offline ncmreynolds

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 05:15:06 AM »
I can see exactly what you mean now.

Those saddles looked very far forward before you moved the studs. Might sound like a stupid question but when you did the intonation did you allow for the BFTS, which I assume the N61 has. Although as I don't own a guitar with BFTS (and it's a trade secret) I don't know whether this means the saddles would end up further away or not.

In fact the proprietary nature of the BFTS puts me off owning a guitar with it. I like to do my own setup, I positively enjoy it, and the 'secret' nature of BFTS deters me. All my Washburns are old and don't have it.



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Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 06:30:36 AM »
Looking at a few pictures around the internet, it seems this might be fairly common.  I paid zero attention to the Buzz F secret formula.  I do not have a tuner that is that precise.  I set up the intonation how I always do and then made minor adjustments to the actual tuning by ear. Here's more about Buzz with using a cheap tuner, maybe I'll try this.  http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/tuningwtbfts.htm

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I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.
 

Offline ncmreynolds

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 06:51:17 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by bionicduck

I paid zero attention to the Buzz F secret formula.  I do not have a tuner that is that precise.



That might have exacerbated the problem. You might not own a super precise tuner but as the BFTS slightly shortens the open string length I can definitely see how it would shift the saddles a fair bit if you intonate conventionally without taking it into account. We'd need somebody who knows the secret formula but doesn't have a business agenda to peddle to confirm either way. Sorry that's my innate suspicion of proprietary 'no user servicable parts' lock-ins coming out.

Regardless, you've fixed the guitar to your satisfaction which is all that matters.



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Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 07:58:55 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by ncmreynolds
Regardless, you've fixed the guitar to your satisfaction which is all that matters.


I agree with that, I'm an old fart and do things the old fashioned way and I enjoy it.  Never with anything expensive though.

Zeglobox knows the formula.


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I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.
 

Offline ZeGlobox

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 07:04:54 AM »
sorry.. missed that topic...

Formula's not a secret (found it on Strobosoft's website) :

Open strings :
Note________Open String Offsets
E___________________00
B__________________+01
G__________________-02
D__________________-02
A__________________-02
E__________________-02


Intonation at 12th fret :
Note__________12th Fret Offsets
E___________________00
B___________________00
G__________________+01
D__________________+01
A___________________00
E___________________00

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Offline TheOnlySnake

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 07:24:30 PM »
AAAHHHHH!!!!! just what I've been looking for!!
Thanks for this ZeGlobox :)
Just one question, does the +1 indicate tuning sharp 1 step? and likewise with the -2 etc...
Sorry for my stupidity lol
Thanks again.

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Offline bionicduck

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N61 grief *updated with pics and video*
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 11:58:36 PM »
It means cent, if you look closely on your tuner you will see it.  There's a few tuners, I'm not sure of the model, but they can handle the buzz feiten specs.  It's on the website.

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I wish my neck was back from Tukwila.