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Author Topic: N4 with 2 knobs?  (Read 7669 times)

Offline j4q0

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N4 with 2 knobs?
« on: April 01, 2013, 10:01:29 AM »
Hi all,

I just fund an N4 for sale locally and I'm just wondering about it.
I'm requesting some more photos and the serial number to properly identify it but I have some doubts already.

Claimed to be bough in 1991.
It has a Khaller tremolo but the locking nut doesn't look like the ones I've seen on early davies, you know with that "extra" piece between the nut and the peghead, this one looks like a regular floyd rose tremolo nut which is only the nut (I hope this makes sense).
It also has a Seymour duncan instead of the BL (but the mounting ring looks like the BL).
It has 2 knobs  (?)

When I have more photos of the guitar it will become more apparent if it's a davies which it shuold as it is from 1991 correct?
I also should see that barrel jack, the back plate with no routing just mounted on the surface, and of course the rolled stephen's cutaway neck/fretboard joint.

My main concerns are the 2 knobs and the different locking nut.
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks!



Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 04:40:26 PM »
Here are some pics of the guitar.
Any comments?




« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:31:35 PM by j4q0 »

Offline lone wolf

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 07:51:50 PM »
Hi,  Like you said, a pic of the serial number would be a big help.  Won't the seller send you a pic?

Offline skeesik

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 07:11:28 AM »
Hi all,

I just fund an N4 for sale locally and I'm just wondering about it.
I'm requesting some more photos and the serial number to properly identify it but I have some doubts already.

Claimed to be bough in 1991.
It has a Khaller tremolo but the locking nut doesn't look like the ones I've seen on early davies, you know with that "extra" piece between the nut and the peghead, this one looks like a regular floyd rose tremolo nut which is only the nut (I hope this makes sense).
It also has a Seymour duncan instead of the BL (but the mounting ring looks like the BL).
It has 2 knobs  (?)

When I have more photos of the guitar it will become more apparent if it's a davies which it shuold as it is from 1991 correct?
I also should see that barrel jack, the back plate with no routing just mounted on the surface, and of course the rolled stephen's cutaway neck/fretboard joint.

My main concerns are the 2 knobs and the different locking nut.
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks!

I'll provide my .02 on your questions first:
  • I've seen many Davies N4s with a "traditional" floyd rose-type nut.  Mine has one of these actually.  It's not uncommon.
  • I have also seen a few (very few) Davies N4s with Duncans in the bridge.  Actually, one of the early print advertisements for the N4 included a Duncan in the bridge, not just in the photo, but also in the spec list
  • The top knob looks to be added by a previous owner.  I've seen this modification on a few N4s for those who want a tone control (volume top, tone bottom)

Now, that said, after looking at the photos, I have more questions.  I could be the poor lighting, but it just has an odd look to it that I can't put my finger on.  I'd love to see a good shot of the headstock, serial # and the entire guitar in natural light (no flash).
*skee

Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 06:41:06 PM »
Thanks Lone Wolf and Skeesik for your replies.
I haven't received a reply from the seller yet but there was another pic of the guitar that I just added to the initial 4 I posted in my previous message.

I had no idea that some N4 came with SD on the bridge, that is a first to me. In any case the bridge mounting ring suggests that originally there was a BL.

What would be that odd look that the guitar has? Perhaps the color of the wood?

I'll post more pics/info when the seller gets back to me.


Offline skeesik

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 11:38:12 AM »
What would be that odd look that the guitar has? Perhaps the color of the wood?

I'll post more pics/info when the seller gets back to me.

Perhaps.  With the washed-out effect due to the hot flash, it almost appears to be swamp ash in a couple of photos.  But, I really don't think that is the case.  Still would be curious to see a shot of the serial # though...
*skee

Offline skeesik

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 02:38:19 PM »
Here is an example, although, this may have been the only one.  In fact, I believe the guitar in this ad is actually Nuno's #1 based on grain patterns....and a little bit of wear already visible.  I believe this particular image was taken from their catalog where this N4 is sitting against a Harley and next to a black N4, both with Duncan pickups....found in the spec description too!

« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 02:45:46 PM by skeesik »
*skee

Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 07:22:58 PM »
the owner got back to me.
He told me that he had added the extra knob for a tone control and swap the pup for a Duncan soon after he bought the guitar. He still has the original Bill Lawrence.

I got a couple more photos of he guitar.
Silly enough the photo of the serial number has the flash directly over it and it can't be seen at all  :-X
The back cover and the jack seem like a '91.

I wonder how much does the added knob modification changes the value of this guitar.
Any thoughts?



Offline lone wolf

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 10:53:47 PM »
The value would be less from a collector standpoint and should be reflected in his price if he is selling it as a collectors item. From your description,it seems he is selling it as just a guitar. So depends on what the price is. You said the sale is local. Go over and play it and get the serial number. If you are not buying to resell, the added tone control could be a feature you like.

Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 01:50:14 PM »
Sorry it took me a while to reply.

Another person ended up buying the guitar before I could go and check it out in person, and now the same guitar is listed on internet for double the price.

True about the added knob though I would have used a concentric pot to keep the body unaltered :)

Offline sdmfer

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 09:29:16 AM »
this wasnt for sale around the toronto area was it? What was the price when you were looking at it? Any thoughts on what a good price is that it would be worth?

Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2013, 12:08:13 AM »
It was but now whomever is selling it now is selling it for a lot more and not with an OHSC.

By the way, I've seen more photos of the guitar and it has some screw holes on the headstock where a string retainer after the locking nut would be.
I've been doing some reading and researching and I've never seen an N4 Davies with this retainer, could it be a Japanese model of the N4? Also the case is not a Washburn so that is another thing that leads me to believe this is not a Davies, the neck has the patent pending and made in usa prints though.
The fact that the seller doesn't want to give the serial number is suspicious too.

Any knowledgeable memebers of the Nuno brigade want to shed some light on this matter?


Offline nevusofota

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2013, 07:25:43 AM »
I think it is a Davies (control cavities, SEC roll, Kahler trem) with a blocked trem (evident in the pic of the back trem cavity).  So the previous owner no longer needed the locking nut which led to needing a string tree.  I've noticed a few Davies recently with blocked trems, I even purchased one.  I see this trend because many of thy young players are down tuning and trems just aren't used as much in today's modern rock. What a shame  ;)
I wouldn't purchase the guitar unless they took $700 max.  I still see Davies N4's around for sale, just takes patience.  I bought two in the last 2 years which were in excellent condition.  I only paid $900 for a mint Davies last year.

Offline skeesik

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2013, 07:58:09 AM »
I agree with much of what nevu said above.  I have seen other Davies N4s where a string tree has been added.  Some only just drilled the holes to resemble Nuno's.  My thought is that this guitar is a genuine Davies N4 (based solely on the photos above) that has been modified a few times over the years.  It has many of the "soft tooling" characteristics of a '91 Davies.  But, because of the mods, I would pay more than$750 for this....especially w/o an ohsc!

Keep looking, they're out there  :)
*skee

Offline j4q0

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Re: N4 with 2 knobs?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 10:08:33 AM »
Nevu and skeesik,
Thank you very much for your insights on this. I too thought the guitar is being over priced because of the modifications and the lack of an OHSC. True the guitar could be in good condition and still play well but if one is looking for a specific guitar you want to get that guitar with its original specs right?

Anyway, I'll have to keep looking as I've been chasing this dream for a long time so I've learned to be patient :D