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Author Topic: Trying to get UPS to pay on damage claim, need original value for 1970s D62SW.  (Read 1035 times)

Offline YerDugliness

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Geez...UPS's gorillas were not so kind to the D62SW I bought. I knew it had some cracks on the soundboard (which I am NOT asking UPS to repair), but when it arrived there was a 6" crack on one side of the back that hadn't been there when the guitar was shipped.

Of course, I insured it...always do...but this time UPS is dragging its feet and they want to make sure that they aren't paying more than the guitar is worth.

Is it possible that anyone might have a Washburn document (old catalog page, some sort of advertisement, a price list, that sort of thing) that might have what would have been a retail price on it? We provided a copy of the check I sent the owner to document the price that was paid before the guitar was delivered to UPS, but I guess that wasn't enough.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest? I use to work for an insurance company...believe me, insurance companies LOOK for ANY reason to deny a claim, it's how they make sure they make a profit.

Thanks for whatever you can do to help. If you can post a photo of whatever you find, I'll print it off on the computer and send it on up to New York.

Thanks!

Dugly 8)

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:09:40 PM by YerDugliness »
YerDugliness,Esq./Post No Bills
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Offline Tony Raven

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There's LOTS going on here, though I get the feeling the conclusion is simple. And as I try to post this, the THRICE-DAMNED software of THIS site is parsing incorrectly, so should I get disgusted & walk away for an hour (or month), I hope you understand.

My thoughts, in no particular order (as usual  :o).
________________

If I was going to pursue something like this, I'd have repairs done by an actual luthier, who'd then write out a detailed receipt so that costs of the disputed damage are readily seen. Then you file suit for those costs, plus punitive for breach of contract (a.k.a messing around with you), plus legal fees.

And this being the modern age & all, you should right now be blasting the heck out of your local UPS depot on social media, starting with Yelp.
________________

For a valuation such as this, even a thumbnail estimate, your BEST bet would be to contact some big shop via email, like Gruhn or Elderly.

I am NOT amused by the "improved" Blue Book site. However, after a browser reboot, I was finally able to get in. Naturally, my account has expired, & I am not inclined (at the moment, at least) to renew it, as I already do 95%+ of my BB research with the actual books, which don't mess around with my computer.

They only have info on the 61 --
https://bluebookofguitarvalues.com/#/SearchCategory/AcousticGuitar/675/4281/WASHBURN_ACOUSTIC_DREADNOUGHT_SOUTHERN_JUMBO_MODELS_D_SERIES_D61_SW_PRAIRIE_SONG

I'm wary of BB for multiple reasons, & this is an example: whoever wrote this entry seems rather vague about the difference between a D61SW & a D61S, & why that shift results in a drop in value.

In any case, the book says final MSRP of the 61 was $1,200, so it's no stretch to say the 62 is about the same.

They aren't exactly common. If you were looking to insure it, I'm confident saying that you, being a respected musician & all, could likely justify a higher valuation for purposes of policy coverage, claiming need to replace in order to "maintain your employment"; if it was THE guitar with which audiences or studios associated you, that figure would reasonably be yet higher.

Worth noting is that BB believes the D61SW12 has pretty much the same value as the 6-string.
________________

Based on BB & on what I know of Washburn, at this point my approximate guess of "value," which is what I'd use if I was considering buying one myself:
* in really great condition, maybe as high as $750
* good overall shape, $500 tops
* needing repair I can't do myself, $300, or $350 if everything but that top crack is Excellent.

Those are my "all in" figures, which include shipping costs.
________________

Lacking clear authority, I turn to the marketplace. Of course, there haven't been many D62SW running around loose, so we're stuck with what can be found.

At Heritage Auctions, a 12 sold in 2011 for $310.70.
https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/musical-instruments/acoustic-guitars/1979-washburn-prairie-song-d-62-sw-12-natural-12-string-acoustic-guitar-680012/a/181125-81019.s

More recently (2014), a D61SW (with generic HSC) sold on Reverb.com for $475 + $35.
https://reverb.com/item/59374-1978-washburn-d-62sw-solid-wood-vintage-d-28-style-acoustic

The latter seller compares it favorably to Martin, & cites info that's no longer accessible, but might help you:
Quote
Per this site, MSRP on these guitars was $499-649 in 1980, which translates to $1780-$2300 in today's dollars.

A 1978 D-28 will run you $1200+, and this comparable guitar is less than half that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 10:16:14 AM by Tony Raven »
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ship of fools

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Hey Dugly I am going to disagree with Tony here the D-62SW is completely different then the D-61SW and from a different time and maker
http://forums.washburn.com/index.php/topic,24745.msg155094.html#msg155094 here is a better estimate for what they are worth in great shape as yours had cracks in the top would reduce the price somewhat significantly so its kind of hard to say because of a difference in time so my best guess would be around $850.00 retail or if you go MSRP would be about another 200 or so
They were great guitars remember playing one when we were in Las Vegas that belonged to whats his name dang my memory ( Squint ) and heres another one that sold in 84 http://forums.washburn.com/index.php/topic,15346.30.html
hope this helps some.ship

Offline Tony Raven

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I'm not a huge fan of insurance companies (though I actually did work at Prudential corporate for a few years & they treated me great). It helps to keep in mind that insurance "is a dirty, nasty, bloody business," not charity.

Like, if I spend $1,000 on a used car, & put $1,000 into improving it, then some moron totals it parked next to my house, it's unlikely I will get what it cost me OR what it'll cost to get a reasonable replacement, instead likely ~$500.

If I buy a nice old guitar for $100, & it turns out to be resellable for more like $2,000, it's on me to either move it along or to get something specific put in my house policy. If it gets stolen, my insuror (despite the "we love you!" commercials they constantly run on TV) will likely try to give me no more than what it actually cost me -- assuming I've got a receipt that bears the seller's still-valid contact information ::) -- & at that might try to apply some sort of depreciation to that $100. Or they might skip that whole chase, say I didn't have a steel door or high-tech security system or armed guards, & deny my claim outright
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resident troublemaker: http://cheapguitars.boards.net/

Offline DaveTrees

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I can give the price they were brand new in Australia ... but that probably doesn't help you much ! 

Hope you get is sorted Dug .. they're a great guitar

Offline YerDugliness

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Thank you SO MUCH, BigCity2!

I have copied the price sheets and will send them on up to the person from whom I bought the guitar. I have high hopes that UPS will see fit to pay off on the damage claim now, as this is the last piece of information they asked for.

Cheers to you!!!!! :D  and, again, THANKS! from Dugly 8)
YerDugliness,Esq./Post No Bills
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Washburns:WD32SW,D61SW,D62SW,C124SWK,
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Other fine acoustics:Breedlove custom shop 000,Hippner #506 Hauser,Takamini 2005 LTD,Epi Masterbilt AJ500RC

Offline YerDugliness

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For those who may have been following this saga, here's where this stands:

I sent photos to my luthier down in Houston and he sent me a very nicely prepared repair estimate. It's actually fairly inexpensive, considering the size and location of the crack...less than $200.

UPS has "accepted" the claim, which means they find merit in it.

The seller and I both obtained some period documents (a BIG THANKS to bigcity2!!!!) that showed varying retail prices for the Prairie Song, but the one UPS could not dispute was when the original owner's wife found the ORIGINAL sales receipt, with the price clearly marked and the model and serial number right on the receipt.

Let 'em try to dispute THAT  ::)

Cheers to TimBee (the seller) for hanging in with this process. Insurance companies don't like to pay claims and try to find a way to deny every one...it'll be tough to do that on this claim!

Dugly 8)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:12:37 PM by YerDugliness »
YerDugliness,Esq./Post No Bills
Guitar Playin' FOOL, attempting to age disgracefully!
Washburns:WD32SW,D61SW,D62SW,C124SWK,
WMJ21S(2),WGO26SCE,WSJ60SKELITE,WG26S (2).
Other fine acoustics:Breedlove custom shop 000,Hippner #506 Hauser,Takamini 2005 LTD,Epi Masterbilt AJ500RC

Offline YerDugliness

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Well, folks, it's all over except for the waiting. Our forum member who posted the instrument for sale received the insurance check and it is enough to cover the repairs and pay for the shipping. We were both surprised that UPS paid for the shipping...although upon reflection it appears reasonable to me that UPS would not charge for the time they spent damaging the guitar..... :o

I'll be transporting the guitar to Houston in June for delivery to my luthier. If his work is as good this time as it was when I damaged my 2005 Tak LTD, the repairs will be impossible to see.

This saga still isn't over, though....multiple repairs on the soundboard need to be cleated and a 6" crack in the lower bout on the back has to be repaired, so it'll take a while...but certainly not as long as it took to get UPS to pay off on their damages, I'd bet!

But, regardless of all that, it's CHEERS for UPS...they did the right thing in the end, it just took some evidence to prove that they needed to.  Good for them!

Dugly 8)
YerDugliness,Esq./Post No Bills
Guitar Playin' FOOL, attempting to age disgracefully!
Washburns:WD32SW,D61SW,D62SW,C124SWK,
WMJ21S(2),WGO26SCE,WSJ60SKELITE,WG26S (2).
Other fine acoustics:Breedlove custom shop 000,Hippner #506 Hauser,Takamini 2005 LTD,Epi Masterbilt AJ500RC

Offline bigcity2

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Glad to hear things worked out for you Dugly :)

Offline YerDugliness

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Thanks,  Jim! One of the docs we sent to UPS was the price charts you posted. Thank you VERY much!!!!

Cheers!

Dugly 8)
YerDugliness,Esq./Post No Bills
Guitar Playin' FOOL, attempting to age disgracefully!
Washburns:WD32SW,D61SW,D62SW,C124SWK,
WMJ21S(2),WGO26SCE,WSJ60SKELITE,WG26S (2).
Other fine acoustics:Breedlove custom shop 000,Hippner #506 Hauser,Takamini 2005 LTD,Epi Masterbilt AJ500RC