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Topics - Tony Raven

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Idol Series / The Idol has risen from the dead!!
« on: September 02, 2018, 12:16:24 AM »
If this is all for real & not some sort of off-kilter April Fool gag, it really deserves some HUGE fanfare in the sites & magazines YouTube & certainly on Washburn's social media!!

Or maybe even in the Forums area.


UPSIDE: Grover tuners are FINALLY back.
DOWNSIDE: if WMS doesn't have them, likely nobody has them... & WMS doesn't have them.
BUMMER: they have appeared on eBay, for $799, but maybe that's MSRP... ???
WEIRDSIDE: they brought back not only the BFTS superstition but the much-unloved VCC. :o Both ought to be made OPTIONS before they scare the sheep.

General Discussion / is Blue Book dead??
« on: February 09, 2018, 02:26:15 AM »
Maybe the question ought to be "exactly how dead is Blue Book?"

I've relied on the print editions from Blue Book, then used their website (non-subscribed) to dig into details because it's easy to search with the computer.

A couple of months ago, they lost their collective tiny mind & "upgraded" the site.

Now, NONE of the model listings will show up on a Google search.

Worse, even the basic search capability has gotten STUPID. I used to be able to look up (say) the entire Maverick line & quickly figure out which model I was looking at from the descriptions. Now, if I type in "Maverick" it says "No results found." If I try "BT-3" I get the same result.

Anyone know how to make this work?

X Series / random questions: X-30 & X-29
« on: December 28, 2017, 10:47:06 AM »
I have an X-33 (s-s-s, vibrato), & have considered getting a companion X-30 (h-h, stoptail). Scanning through BlueBook Online, I just now noticed that the X-30 has a five-stop blade switch rather than the usual thre-way toggle. Does anyone know how this is wired up?

I've been offered a good deal on an X-29. Never heard of such a beast, & BlueBook is no help. In photos it looks like an X-30. A Guitar Center run, maybe?

I noticed a WG-580 up for auction:

Naturally, I wanted to compare to what else is on the market, so found another WG-580:

Problem is, they're a 24-fret with black hardware & a 22-fret with chrome hardware.

BlueBook, generally a source of obsessive chatter, doesn't mention a fret count, or even the Rose-type bridge, though it says the hardware is black.

My first example clearly has black Grovers. Enlarging a photo, the serial number says it's 1999, & it's Korea.

Available 2000-2002, is it possible Washburn changed factory (even nation) in the middle of its run? Given the "200 unit" thing, did they maybe resurrect the model after an initial run, at the behest of Guitar Center or similar?

Vintage and Rare Washburns / unusual Washburn models
« on: October 29, 2017, 11:17:57 AM »
There are, however, some Washies that just totally defy my attempts at research...  >:( I've heard that Washburn has put out guitars available in a particular region; e.g., the X-3 seems to have appeared only in Australia. I'll put in the current headscratchers, but anyone is welcome to add to the stack.

Here's a silkscreen block for a "Presidential Series" of guitars --

Though this looks like an XB-400 with gold hardware & Status pickups, it's listed as a KE-1250, & the headstock decal confirms it's a Kip Winger signature model.

And another, in Natural --

Both sellers in Japan, so I figure it's a regional release, & not mentioned in U.S. catalogues.

Out looking for more info on that one, I find reference to the PB-1250 Pat Badger signature bass. Again, only Japan sellers:

Vintage and Rare Washburns / the reality of "Limited" & "Special Edition"
« on: October 28, 2017, 12:51:32 PM »
I get the feeling that "there's a sucker born every minute" applies to MANY buyers when it comes to "valuable" Washburn models. It's not that the company (or its retailers) is trying to mislead, but they certainly take advantage of assumptions.

Typically, Washburn puts out some sort of "special edition" variant of a standard model, usually at the behest of a huge company like Guitar Center or Musician's Friend, though previously higher-end models for dealers like Funky Munky. Production runs of the latter might be forty or twenty or ten or five; for the former, "limited" could be 1,000, or even more.

For me, the problem with this is that (as Jim Smith has said), most Washburn models over the years have been ordered 200 at a time. If sales don't pan out, the model is simply never re-ordered. This is VERY common among higher-end guitars, particularly acoustic (where a 200 run might take two full years to sell out). Sometimes, because of a business change (i.e., someone in Marketing decided a certain design didn't have a real chance), a model or line is scrapped before it appears in a pricelist much less catalogue: the mass-market TB-100 isn't much easier to find than the deluxe TB-400.

In short, it's not difficult to spot a Washburn that is, by any measure, actually rarer than most "limited edition" guitars from ANY company.

That doesn't happen so often as might be assumed. Finding the ones that're actually uncommon requires a bit of research, & familiarity with Washburn's corporate quirks, though such background isn't difficult. However, it's easier for a seller to simply claim rarity, as if aware that most buyers are even more ignorant.

Washburn LIKES to do limited runs for sellers. That way, they're taking no chances... they probably get some (maybe all) of their cost paid up-front... there's no changes to the pricelist... no worries about whether anyone will want the guitars... no warehousing... no need for clearance. And because they can order more than 200 from the factory, Washburn stands to profit a little more per unit.

I've mentioned elsewhere how the D-100 is just a D-10 made for a major reseller. Some, though, believe the number gives relative value.

The major example of casual mistruth is the "LTD" series of acoustics. No entry in Washburn catalogues or pricelists, none in Blue Book. I've called them the "D-9xLTD" & found credible reference of them for 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, & 1998. Each year has been said to've been "limited" to the date-number (1,996 for 1996, called the D-96LTD) or 2,000 (as some labels state).

Okay, right there, ANYONE ought to wonder how "limited" they really are!! :o

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was the LTD that went out one year with soundhole labels printed with the name of the company that ordered the lot, & these were sometimes gifted to employees or shops (rather than put up for sale).

My guess thus far is the base model is a D-9, with upgrades. Some years, there is rather nice-sounding decoration, like someone claims the 1997 has abalone rosette & top binding... though the guy paid $250 new so I suspect he can't tell abalone from pearloid. Another paid "less than $500" for his '94 from a real-world store.

I have a few more details elsewhere:,26915.msg158911.html#msg158911

Lately, "Millennium" guitars have been popping up regularly. You can tell the clueless because they believe "Millennium" was a model; it was a SERIES, variants on a few models, listed together to cash in on Year 2K Mania. Their scarcity (let alone rarity) is questionable at best.

(Amusingly, the 12th-fret inlay actually says Millenium (single n), a misspelling I've seen repeated on the soundhole tag & a COA.)

Natural-finish Festival with butterfly bridge, sold for $400 --

A black Festival, can't get an opening $175 bid --

A dread, DM2000QCE in Amber, a 300 run, MIK, butterfly bridge, s/n indicates 1999 --
Only been up half a day, yet up to $130 on only four bids -- might top $250.

Vintage and Rare Washburns / spotted: Beckmen "Washburn"
« on: October 21, 2017, 03:01:09 PM »
I'm not saying that the Beckmen inports are particularly great guitars, especially the lower-number models... BUT you don't see many on the market, & they're of interest to serious fans of Washburn Guitars.

This seems to be a 260. It's up to $52, s/h will be ~$50, there's a bit more than three days left for bids.

General Discussion / used Washburns on the market
« on: September 19, 2017, 05:13:47 PM »
{updated 12/20/2017 to remove sold guitars -- more than 2/3 have been sold  over three months, affirming my estimation that Washburn IS NOT in fact an underrated brand, but suffers from poor marketing in the popular mind}

I really enjoy browsing online for used gear. Fortunately, I have a budget, or there would be no room left in my house for furniture. However, I come across some VERY interesting items, & hope that other Washburn fans might benefit from this.

Lately, there's been some unusual Washburns appearing, & generally at a price you'd probably find pleasant. Here's this evening's run through the nation's Guitar Centers. And to stay true to my penny-pinching roots, I will not venture higher than $299.95.

...for instance, this J-5.

Lovely CB4QB bass, $299.99.

Here's one someone recently asked about: one humbucker, big vibrato system, $249.99.

A buterfly-bridge D-30S, $249.99.

While in plain black, & with a repaired neck, I've never seen a P2 so low as $169.99.

One of the oddities: the Idol from the brief HM Series, $199.99.

Good basic snakehead AG-30 dread, $149.99 -- whoops, dropped to $110.

Vintage and Rare Washburns / older instruments: caution
« on: September 10, 2017, 12:04:48 PM »
Someone reminded me of this on another forum, & none of us could determine whether the matter has been settled somewhat better.

You may remember when Federal marshals raided a Gibson plant back in August 2011, and previously three plants in 2009.
They were enforcing the Lacey Act, a century-old endangered species law that was amended in 2008 to include plants as well as animals.
I'm all for protecting endangered species.

HOWEVER, the law has been interpreted as 100% retroactive.

That is to say, if you own (say) an African carving that your great-grandfather bought as a tourist in the 1950s, & it's made from some wood that has since become scarce, you might be violating Federal law to possess it.

The problem for us? Let me point out that pianos used to have coverings made from elephant ivory. Technically, the Feds can storm into any place that has old pianos or keytops, & lock everything down until they go through, piece by piece, & determine that none of the ivory is actually from an embargoed source.

This has -- thank heavens  :o -- settled down a bit. However, attempts to export or import old ivory keytops run afoul of U.S. Fish & Wildlife, & those Federal marshals.

Not that everything is so easy. Remember that carving? Let's say it was instead in elephant tusk. You may rest assured it's totally legal to own. long as you don't sell it, or buy it.  ::)

You CAN buy or sell if the ivory used is at least a century old (past the death of the elephant, one assumes). And it was properly brought in through a designated port. And it has been in no way modified (inclding any repairs). Naturally, you must have paperwork that proves its age AND importation path.

Certain woods are also protected. I find mention of ebony (Madagascar) & rosewood (Brazil & Madagascar).

You might get a great deal on an old Lyon & Healy. Is it crossing an international border to get to you? Are you certain of all the materials used in its construction? Do you have any sort of credible verification that you're correct? If you are a performing musician, do you travel outside your country with such an instrument?

If you have a higher-end instrument from the 1970s or even later, you might run afoul of the Lacey Act. As far as I can determine, even one little ebony chip in a headstock inlay might cost you the instrument. And until the Feds are entirely satisfied that your axe is legit, they'll happily hold on to it for you.

Any updates welcome!!

According to Blue Book Online:
Some models that were produced are not included in any catalogs that we have.

Washburn produced a line of basses with the Stephen's Extended Cutaway. They were produced for a brief time and were never included in the catalog for SEC. The B80 was a solid body with the vivid finishes the guitar SEC models had. The B90 had a flame maple top. The B100 had a solid flame maple body.

The headless English Status-style bass was reintroduced as the S60 and a Black Walnut version, the S70 (see Status Series).

A five-string bass made its debut as the B105.

From eBay --

From elsewhere on this site (2010) --

Festival Series / EA14 variant
« on: February 18, 2017, 07:49:15 PM »
Spotted at --

I shrugged it off, because it's not like I really need another a/e, even though it IS a Festival. Serialnumber begins SC02, so certainly MIC.

But then I noticed the shape of the headstock, & the echoing asymmetry of the bridge. Every Festival I can think of had themore typical symmetric Washie headstock (with a few snakeheads), & a fast whip 'round the Interwebs didn't net me even a glance of anything but the standard "batwing" bridge.

Anyone know about this oddity? I may bid, but mostly I'm just curious.

Announcements & News / Chicago Custom Shop -- HELP ME
« on: February 05, 2017, 11:23:48 AM »
I'm digging into some history research, but can locate pretty much NOTHING about Washburn's Chicago luthiery work, except that it's dead. :(

Therefore, I would greatly appreciate ANY info on the skunkworks, like
  • the street address
  • launch date
  • tales of notable visitors
  • email of someone who wouldn't mind a few stupid questions ;)
  • webpage where it's mentioned
Pray for me... ???

General Discussion on Washburn Electric Guitars / Tabu series
« on: November 30, 2016, 12:39:43 AM »
The TB models were short-lived, there's about zero info out there, & they're widely ignored in the used market. The closest I have to a reliable lifespan is "sometime around 2002." Pretty cool guitars, though, if you like a deep sorta-SG doublecut. I'm not feeling creative tonight, so here's my rough field notes.

TB400 -- 3-3 tapered head, carved top, no dots, 12th inlay, Rose, BFTS, deep doublecut, 2T2V + 3-way (all inset), bound neck, rosewood, h-h HeadHunter, seen (Sep 2016 Reverb) in silver (flake?), 2002, Korea, hardware looks more nickel than chrome, seller says made for retailer (unnamed), $299 + $20 inc branded OHSC

TB400 -- Grovers, black nickel hardware, bound top (white), 2002; 3/7/2015 sold 333 + 69 (no case)

TB300 -- thru-body TOM, bound qm top in CSB, mahog/mahog, set neck, bound neck/head, Head Hunter hh set, inlay only @ 12th (tribal style)

TB300 -- "1996-1999 only 900 made"?? (per Reverb listing), carved maple on mahog, silver metallic finish, mahog neck, 18:1 Grovers, BFTS, tribal graphic (blackish, diff from 200 below), thru-body TOM, inlay 12th only, pickups closed (black) w/blurred insig lower-left corner. sold $199 used

TB200 -- black hardware, 18:1 Grover, Wilkie 50 bridge (2-point), Head Hunter bridge/Shaman neck hbs, matte black finish w/custom "tribal" graphic in silver, inlay only "tribal" 12th, no s/n on head, medium frets, 24.75 scale; shows also in crimson

TB100 -- looks same as TB200, but hardtail (black); also Zzounds listing shows met med blue version, but no body paint.
Tuners: 18:1 Black Grover Tuners
Body & Neck: Superior Quality Hard Maple
Pickups: Two Humbucking Alnico
Controls: 2 Volume, 2 Tone, 3 Position Selector Switch
Tailpiece: Hard Tail, Black Hardware
Finish: Matte Black with Custom Tabu body and 12th fret graphics
Frets: Medium
Scale Length: 24 3/4 in.

TB400 ---

TB100 ---

TB300 ---

General Discussion / serial numbers: before you ask...
« on: November 27, 2016, 02:51:08 PM »
A lot of guitar owners read waaaaay too much into serial numbers, as though all they need is to find someone with the Magic Decoder Ring who can speak to the spirits & discern all sorts of secret lore & stuff about their one particular instrument.

Well, it's nonsense.

A serial number is NOT like a vehicle identification number, which often CAN tell you a lot about the vehicle it's attached to.

If need be, sit down with a dictionary & look up the word SERIAL -- it's part of a series. That's all. A Gibson-type serial stamp works a lot like a vehicle odometer, advancing the count one at a time & not allowed to turn backward

I work in an industrial setting, & not for the first time in 40+ years of employment, so I know somewhat about manufacturing. And maybe it's irony, but I learned a little about the uselessness of serial numbers from looking into the history of Lyon & Healy, makers of the original Washburns.
Serial numbers are there
  • for quality control purposes, so that if something goes horribly wrong with an instrument, the problem can quickly be tracked back to where the failure began.
  • for subsequent damage control, so that other instruments produced with the same failed techniques &/or materials can be collected for closer inspection.
  • to track output for a given worker, line, team, run, &/or plant.
  • to ensure that a contract manufacturer isn't selling your items "out the back door" or misappropriating components (like roughed-in neck assemblies).
In particular, note point #3. Given excellent records & intelligent workers, there's no reason NOT to have redundant serial numbers. Cue an illustration...

Let's say I've got two main products, maybe electric guitars -- call 'em the Bratocaster & the Helecaster. They look entirely different, even to someone who knows nothing about guitars. Therefore, anyone who finds a fault with Bratocaster #437  & places the blame on whoever made Helecaster #437 is gonna get fired for excessive stupidity.

And maybe I've got a small line of high-end fancy-schmancy Bratocasters -- again, nobody with two IQ points to rub together would mistake one for a main-line Bratocaster, & there's no reason not to also have a Bratocaster Superbo with s/n 437.

We also make a bass guitar. Guess what -- another #437 soon exists.

I get bored easily, so let's say that I sit down with my design team every 18 months & tweak stuff: headstock shape, inlays, pickguard, finish, & so on. My workers enjoy this & adapt readily; even the newest hires can recognize which "era" an older guitar came from -- it's a little more arcane than discerning a Helecaster from a Bratocaster, but (as the saying goes) it AIN'T rocket science. And logically enough, I "close the books" on the previous version... & soon enough there's more guitars stamped 437.

We decide to produce an inexpensive line of Helecasters at a factory in Iceland. There are minor but distinct differences with our domestic version. Rather than put the serial number on a decal, the import's number is stamped into the headstock before the finish is applied. Sure enough: here comes #437.

Consider the Fender serial number "system." Leo Fender was quirky, but meticulous, yet even he didn't have much of a system. He hand-built PA amplifiers in the late 1930s & started making electrified lapsteels in 1945 but the earliest known serial numbers arrived with the Esquire/Tele in 1950... sometimes with a three- AND a four-digit system being used at the same time.

Really, there's no Magic Decoder Ring gonna find secret wisdom in THAT. :o

It wasn't until halfway through 1954 that the Fender numbering system stabilized, AND it was "universal" meaning that the same numeric sequence was applied to ALL Fender instruments. (Even then there are apparent inconsistencies.>0) This was used to 1963. It ran to about 99999, beginning at 0001 -- rather _0001. In attempting to add another digit in 1963, someone used an "L" instead of a "1"; rather than having to go back & fix a bunch of errors, Fender chose to run with it & produced L-prefix numbers throuhg 1965. Under new ownership, Fender went the next decade with a system that ran from 100000 to 750000.

Notice: these are all serial numbers -- no Hidden Wisdom at all. ??? Twenty-five years & more than a half-million instruments.

Mid-1976, Fender introduced a new scheme, where the first character -- a capital letter -- actually DID indicate decade & the next digit the year. The letters are S ('70s), E ('80s), N ('90s), & Z ('00s). This was replaced in 2010 with a "US" prefix followed by a two-digit year code. The single-letter system, though, remains in use with the Mexico-made guitars, where Z was followed by X ('10s), so a guitar made there today would begin with MX6-.

All of that is hunky-dory... except, again, THERE IS NO SECRET CODE.  ::)

Most guitar owners who want the Real Truth about their instrument will have no idea who Zach Fjestad is, which explains a lot. :( Fjestad writes a column for Premier Guitar, which is THE magazine/site for people who care about gear old & new. Fjestad is also the obsessive guy behind the Blue Book of Guitar Values books & website, which has for years been THE place to begin researching instruments.

A few weeks ago, Fjestad responded to a reader with a Fender Stratocaster, serial number MN6xxxxx, & asked if he could determine which model it is.

I discovered this the hard way with Squier, the Fender sub-brand. There might be three or four or even more "series" of guitars being made at any given moment. Presently, Squier has the Classic Vibe, Vintage Modified, Deluxe, Standard, Affinity, & Bullet serieses. Fortunately, most are made by different contractors in various nations, so they have their own numbering systems.

But all California-made guitars use ONE serial numbering system between them... as do the Mexico guitars.

That MN6 guitar, sight unseen -- think of how many people show up here with a serial number & no photos, right? -- might have been a Traditional, a Standard, a Tex-Mex, or a Richie Sambora Signature; that's hundreds of dollars in difference (not to mention the quality swing) yet the numbers are all sorta mashed together. Fjestad figures it out by color, hardware, & deduction.

In recent years, Washburn has had the decency -- well, more than half the time, anyway -- clearly attach a guitar's model number somewhere. This isn't perfect, of course: a few years ago I saw someone selling a "BT-9" that was clearly a BT-2 with a trussrod cover they'd found somewhere.

Despite their internal mythos, Washburn really doesn't care much about serial numbers, much less about some sort of Grand Sceme unified system. To reiterate from an older thread,
The chances of identifying a guitar from its serial number are... well, about zero. You'll have to give us some minimal crumbs of info, like photo(s) or what it's a clone of.
I have a few examples within reach.
  • WE-3 -- no serial number
  • BT-6 -- 18091079
  • BT-3 -- 18113047
  • X-10 -- OC04049724
  • WI-66V -- N02040258
  • X-33 -- N05112239
  • WCSD30SCE -- SC15071184
The Washburn numbering system has got somewhat better since the 1980s, but only somewhat. Notice the Mavericks; these were made 1995-2000, yet "common wisdom" says the first two digits are year... which would make 'em either of 1918 or 2018 manufacture. :P The "backup plan" is that the FIRST digit represents year... um, dudes, meaning what, 1991 or 2001? >:( Four dates, & anyone who wants to BELIEVE in the Secret Wisdom should tell me which ONE is correct. ;)

That's barely 20 years ago, yet not at all useful beyond being a serial number. In short, I have reason to believe that the "system" is at best unreliable & at worst a pile of random garbage.

The current standard -- since at least 2002 in my list -- does appear to be one or two letters followed by eight numerics. For the last four on the list, the year is likely as you'd expect.

I've heard that the next two numerics are supposed to represent the month. However, I've heard of examples where those digits were "00" or "27" so I'm not sure I'd take it at face value -- after all, I work in a place that has a 50-week production year, & two digits would make it easy to map this. Industrially speaking, production is much easier to track consistently by the week (seven days, period) rather than month (30 or 31 days except when it's 28 or sometimes 29).

And common wisdom says that the final four digits represent the instrument's actual place in the period defined by the previous digits. That's probably correct but... well, so what? There's no reason to think my X-33 was part of a run of black X-33s -- that number merely happens to be what was waiting in the hopper when someone decided the guitar was completed. It might have been mixed in with various WI-64, X-40, HB-35, & T-24.

We don't even have a list of the factories indicated by the prefixes.

Until someone "in a position to know" blesses these Forums with those details, anyone who expects details about their instrument should... well, do their own research.

Nothing worth having is free. Customer Support is 1-800-877-6863. The main site has a whole bunch of archived catalogues & pricelists. Much info is available online at no cost from Blue Book. A account (no cost) gets access to values; an eBay account gets access to listings of stuff sold in the past two months.

Timbercraft Series / catching up with the Woodcrafts
« on: November 22, 2016, 12:40:19 AM »
Random data...

Presently, the only Woodcraft Series model listed on the Washburn site is the WCD50S.
SHAPE:    Dreadnought
TOP:    Solid Sitka Spruce
BACK:    Koa
SIDES:    Koa
BRACING:    Quarter Sawn Scalloped Sitka Spruce bracing
ROSETTE:    Custom Wood Inlay
MATERIAL:    Satin Mahogany with 2 way Trussrod
INLAYS:    dots
NUT:    Bone
NUT WIDTH:    43mm
SCALE:    25.5
BRIDGE:    Koa
TUNERS:    Chrome Diecast

The WCSD50S features a Solid Sitka Spruce top, Koa back, sides, bridge, headstock cap and pickguard, multi-lam binding, mahogany neck with maple fingerboard, diecast tuners, 25.5” scale, gloss finish, and comes equipped with DAddario® EXP-16 coated strings. It also comes with a gigbag and includes a Limited Lifetime Warranty.

Striking features of the Woodcraft Series are the exotic back and side woods of Zebrawood and Koa with matching headstocks, bridges and pickguards plus a maple fretboard on select models. This series is comprised of 8 models available as dreadnought or dreadnought cutaway w/electronics. Models with 0 in the model name designates a maple fretboard and 2 designates a rosewood fret board.
Per a press release:
Buffalo Grove, IL (January 22, 2015) -- Washburn Guitars is excited to announce the introduction of our new series of acoustic guitars, The Woodcraft Series. Striking features of this series are the exotic back and side woods of Zebrawood and Koa with matching headstocks, bridges and pickguards plus a maple fretboard on select models. The new series is comprised of 8 models available as dreadnought or dreadnought cutaway w/electronics. Models with 0 in the model name designates a maple fretboard and 2 designates a rosewood fret board.

All guitars in the Woodcraft Series feature Solid Sitka Spruce tops, multi-lam binding, mahogany necks, diecast tuners, 25.5” scale, gloss finish, are equipped with DAddario EXP-16 coated strings, come with a gigbag and include a Limited Lifetime Warranty.

The WCSD30S/WCSD30SCE and WCSD32S/WCSD32SCE feature Zebrawood back, sides, bridge, headstock cap and pickguard. SCE models feature a cutaway for superb upper fret access and Fishman Isys+ electronics for accurate amplified acoustic tone. The WCSD30S/WCSD32S retail for $712.90 and the WCSD30SCE/WCSD32SCE retail for $819.90.

The WCSD50S/WCSD50SCE and WCSD52S/WCSD52SCE feature Koa back, sides, bridge, headstock cap and pickguard. SCE models feature a cutaway for superb upper fret access and Fishman Isys+ electronics for accurate amplified acoustic tone. The WCSD50S/WCSD52S retail for $890.90 and the WCSD50SCE/WCSD52SCE retail for $997.90.
Somehow, the excitement factor in Washburn ad copy continues to decline.  :o

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