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Messages - Tony Raven

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1
General Discussion / Re: used Washburns on the market
« on: April 25, 2018, 08:56:29 PM »
I stopped by MGR in hopes of spotting a particular off-brand model. No luck there, but (naturally) I had to check the Washburns. (This being MGR, remember to add $55 for s/h, with less being unusual.)

Looks like a Washie fan has left the fold. The Natick store has an interesting pair: a Dan Donegan DD-61 ($200) AND a matching WI-63 ($200).
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/881237/used-washburn-dd-61-electric-guitar-black
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/881227/used-washburn-washburn-wi-63sf-wbag-electric-guitar-black

They also have a DD-60, $160.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/782036/used-washburn-dd-60-electric-guitar-silvergray

Though above my usual pricerange, at $540 this N-61 is something seen much less than the usual "Nuno" models, so I'd consider it a bargain for those so inclined.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/800322/used-washburn-n-61-electric-guitar-white

A rather lovely (& obviously loved) J-9, with HSC, just $400.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/900063/used-washburn-j9-electric-guitar-white

You don't see many of these: an RR-150 solid-body electric-acoustic (separate piezo output), $380.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/736583/used-washburn-rr150-electric-guitar-black

Nice chunky J-3, down to $338.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/852587/used-washburn-j-3-tsk-electric-guitar-tobacco-sunburst

Maybe a little steep, but a well-kept G-10V (w/Wonderbar) in HSC, $330.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/895931/used-washburn-g-10v-electric-guitar-red

The next they call an "X-50 Pro." I think they're idiots.  :)  Though there certainly were a dozen (at least!) pricier variants on the X-50, I'm moderately certain none of them had either a rosewood fretboard or HeadHunter pickups. Still, $200 buys a good straight-up guitar.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/856593/used-washburn-x-50-pro-electric-guitar-brown

Looks like the KC-70V is at a $200 plateau.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/859048/used-washburn-washburn-kc-70v-electric-guitar-custom-graphics
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/887477/used-washburn-kc-70v-electric-guitar-electric-guitar-other

The X series was vastly underrated; I bought an X-10 for cheap & was overall quite pleased. Was it an X-11 that had the "flaming skull" graphic? In any case, a reasonable example for just $110.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/914239/used-washburn-x-series-electric-guitar-custom-graphics

X-30, $120.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/926760/used-washburn-x30-electric-guitar-silver-burst

If you'd like to try seven strings, this X-27 is pretty painless at $100.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/895213/used-washburn-x-27-electric-guitar-black

A black "Pop Top" vee, $150.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/854755/used-washburn-pt-electric-guitar-black

Difficult to argue the simplicity of the G-1V, especially for $100.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/909095/used-washburn-washburn-iv-1-hum-guitar-electric-guitar-red

This MG-43 is one of the few Washburn s-s-s models, basically a 24-fret Strat with Rose, $200.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/778971/used-washburn-mercury-mg-43-electric-guitar-red

In 40 years, Washburn has almost entirely avoided doing straight-out Fender clones, exceptions being rare Silverados, & the unjustly ignored Lyon Series & Shadow Series. The Shadows have been trickling in (note stock Grovers), here an hss WS-6 ($120) & an absolute bargain ivory (:o) sss WS-4 ($90). If you want a player for cheap, skip the Squires entirely.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/906145/used-washburn-shadow-series-ws-6ts-electric-guitar-sunburst
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/916623/used-washburn-ws-4iv-electric-guitar-white

Oh, dear, speak of the devil. The Lyon Series has been damned by name association with "Lyon by Washburn." Well, general ignorance gets a bargain: here's a black hss with skunk-stripe neck & maple fretboard (no Grovers, alas!), $80.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/910510/used-washburn-lyon-electric-guitar-s-type-electric-guitar-black

Speaking of Grovers, they do appear on this basic (albeit purple) MIK Mercury, $75.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/827284/used-washburn-mercury-electric-guitar-purple

The lower BT models are still not respected. This BT-2 may be developing a head split, but if I saw it I'd happily weasel them down from $70, pretending I didn't notice the tuners or the upgraded pickups... 8)
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/903822/used-washburn-bt-2-electric-guitar-sunburst

The one that tempts me tonight is a TB-100, from the VERY short-lived "Tabu" series, only $70 for HeadHunters AND black Grovers.
https://www.musicgoround.com/p/808582/used-washburn-tb100-tabu-series-electric-guitar-blue

2
Discuss Basses and Bass Playing / Re: Washburn Chicago USA - PB
« on: April 25, 2018, 02:52:16 AM »
Washburn serial numbers are not 100% reliable for dating, but if common wisdom holds up, yours was shipped in 2002.

Since the demise of VintageWashburn.com, we're left with the sparse Washburn archives. (http://www.washburn.com/media/catalogs/) The closest I can get is the 2001, in which the only P-style model is XB-100 "value priced basses."

3
Idol Series / Re: Help!
« on: April 25, 2018, 02:36:57 AM »
The inlays are distinctive. At first I wanted to say a WI-18, but those have no pickplate.

So far as I can determine, the only Idols with a pickplate like that were in the WI-64 family. The WI-64DL had a fancy top. I'm half-certain there was a variant on the DL, but can't find it in my notes.

4
General Discussion / Re: Lyon by Washburn LB-10 /SB
« on: April 25, 2018, 02:10:27 AM »
Last things first. :)

Is Lyon by Washburn the same as Washburn?
In the same way that a Squier Affinity is "a Fender." To the best of my knowledge, the Lyon brand was intended for large Canadian retail chains. Most models were produced for a limited time. Most models were basic, inexpensive guitars, with some exceptions: I own an LCT24 (like a double-cut Les Paul) that is rather nice & somewhat collectible; here's someone else's --


in which catalog could I read about this bass?
As a commodity brand, there'd be no catalogues, though there may be informational flyers for stores. There has never been a website for Lyon guitars.

I need help determining the year of production of this guitar. No serial number is available.
Without a serial number, there is no way to narrow down the production year. Generally, I only saw the Lyon brand around 2000 to 2005.

I only know that it's the LB-10 / SB model. in which catalog could I read about this bass?
It's an easy guess that "LB" stands for "Lyon bass." With such a low model number, it's likely the least-expensive Lyon bass, with probable retail price under $200.

5
Vintage and Rare Washburns / Re: Vintage Washburn Identify Please
« on: April 22, 2018, 12:44:06 PM »
Aside from fancy "presentation" models, very few L&H instruments have major value. At their peak, L&H cranked them out by the cartload, literally.

Being "commodity" instruments, most were used to death then parked in the basement or attic, with no maintenance at all. In my experience, good acoustic guitars eventually NEED to have their necks reset, & sometimes other work (pull up & reglue the bridge, reattach the braces, etc.).

The early "parlor-size" guitars were originally intended for gut strings; because of their short scale, they adapted moderately well to steel strings without collapsing the top or ripping the heel loose -- initially, at least.

And the adjustable trussrod hadn't been invented yet. Very few guitars had any sort of neck reinforcement at all. People who restore/upgrade larger guitars might add a trussrod & maybe rearrange the braces.

An acquaintance told me he'd paid $200 for a beat-up but playable L&H, planned on putting $500 or so into restoring it, & asked what it'd be worth. I said he'd have a pretty good $700 guitar. ??? Fixing a guitar is like building a hotrod: do it for the experience & to have a fun toy, because if you ever try to sell it you'll be lucky to recoup even the parts cost. Fixing a guitar for one's own use minimizes downside, & the value will likely remain stable for eventual trade/resale.

I wouldn't eBay the neck separately. So long as you don't misrepresent what you've got, there's probably someone who'll pay more for shipping to get a vintage"project" guitar.

6
I'm not a huge fan of insurance companies (though I actually did work at Prudential corporate for a few years & they treated me great). It helps to keep in mind that insurance "is a dirty, nasty, bloody business," not charity.

Like, if I spend $1,000 on a used car, & put $1,000 into improving it, then some moron totals it parked next to my house, it's unlikely I will get what it cost me OR what it'll cost to get a reasonable replacement, instead likely ~$500.

If I buy a nice old guitar for $100, & it turns out to be resellable for more like $2,000, it's on me to either move it along or to get something specific put in my house policy. If it gets stolen, my insuror (despite the "we love you!" commercials they constantly run on TV) will likely try to give me no more than what it actually cost me -- assuming I've got a receipt that bears the seller's still-valid contact information ::) -- & at that might try to apply some sort of depreciation to that $100. Or they might skip that whole chase, say I didn't have a steel door or high-tech security system or armed guards, & deny my claim outright

7
Show Us Your Washburn / Re: D100M/TWR
« on: April 22, 2018, 11:38:01 AM »
Yah, exactly: another "tale of the model number."
  • D-100: dreadnought; a D-10 with some nice details, built specifically for large retailers (Musician's Friend, right?)
  • mahogany veneer (plywood) top
  • transparent wine red finish

8
There's LOTS going on here, though I get the feeling the conclusion is simple. And as I try to post this, the THRICE-DAMNED software of THIS site is parsing incorrectly, so should I get disgusted & walk away for an hour (or month), I hope you understand.

My thoughts, in no particular order (as usual  :o).
________________

If I was going to pursue something like this, I'd have repairs done by an actual luthier, who'd then write out a detailed receipt so that costs of the disputed damage are readily seen. Then you file suit for those costs, plus punitive for breach of contract (a.k.a messing around with you), plus legal fees.

And this being the modern age & all, you should right now be blasting the heck out of your local UPS depot on social media, starting with Yelp.
________________

For a valuation such as this, even a thumbnail estimate, your BEST bet would be to contact some big shop via email, like Gruhn or Elderly.

I am NOT amused by the "improved" Blue Book site. However, after a browser reboot, I was finally able to get in. Naturally, my account has expired, & I am not inclined (at the moment, at least) to renew it, as I already do 95%+ of my BB research with the actual books, which don't mess around with my computer.

They only have info on the 61 --
https://bluebookofguitarvalues.com/#/SearchCategory/AcousticGuitar/675/4281/WASHBURN_ACOUSTIC_DREADNOUGHT_SOUTHERN_JUMBO_MODELS_D_SERIES_D61_SW_PRAIRIE_SONG

I'm wary of BB for multiple reasons, & this is an example: whoever wrote this entry seems rather vague about the difference between a D61SW & a D61S, & why that shift results in a drop in value.

In any case, the book says final MSRP of the 61 was $1,200, so it's no stretch to say the 62 is about the same.

They aren't exactly common. If you were looking to insure it, I'm confident saying that you, being a respected musician & all, could likely justify a higher valuation for purposes of policy coverage, claiming need to replace in order to "maintain your employment"; if it was THE guitar with which audiences or studios associated you, that figure would reasonably be yet higher.

Worth noting is that BB believes the D61SW12 has pretty much the same value as the 6-string.
________________

Based on BB & on what I know of Washburn, at this point my approximate guess of "value," which is what I'd use if I was considering buying one myself:
* in really great condition, maybe as high as $750
* good overall shape, $500 tops
* needing repair I can't do myself, $300, or $350 if everything but that top crack is Excellent.

Those are my "all in" figures, which include shipping costs.
________________

Lacking clear authority, I turn to the marketplace. Of course, there haven't been many D62SW running around loose, so we're stuck with what can be found.

At Heritage Auctions, a 12 sold in 2011 for $310.70.
https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/musical-instruments/acoustic-guitars/1979-washburn-prairie-song-d-62-sw-12-natural-12-string-acoustic-guitar-680012/a/181125-81019.s

More recently (2014), a D61SW (with generic HSC) sold on Reverb.com for $475 + $35.
https://reverb.com/item/59374-1978-washburn-d-62sw-solid-wood-vintage-d-28-style-acoustic

The latter seller compares it favorably to Martin, & cites info that's no longer accessible, but might help you:
Quote
Per this site, MSRP on these guitars was $499-649 in 1980, which translates to $1780-$2300 in today's dollars.

A 1978 D-28 will run you $1200+, and this comparable guitar is less than half that.

9
Festival Series / Re: Buzz Feiten
« on: April 14, 2018, 12:23:30 PM »
That "Captcha"-type stuff is supposed to go away after a few posts. It's intended to reduce having the board overwhelmed when a spambot figures out how to get past the signup process.

10
Wow, how the heck did I overlook this --
THE BODY DESIGN
WAS A VARIANCE ON THE USA-BUILT JENNIFER BATTEN ARTIST MODELS.
Mmmm... nope.  8)

The JB models were offered 2000-2004.

The Mavericks were around 1995-2002.

11
Announcements & News / Re: Shut It Down
« on: April 08, 2018, 03:55:32 PM »
Actually, I'd forgotten I posted an assessment more than a year ago --
Oxymorons rule, & right up there with "miltary intelligence" is "corporate wisdom." The new owners, rather than capitalizing on the sunk costs of the models they inherited, decided to clean house. Like, they stopped most of the Idols, & came up with "the New Idol" WIN Series which is nothing but a cheap MIC LP clone -- a cost-cutting blunder that's greatly damaged brands like ESP's LTD & PRS's SE series, further diluting value of once-great names. The short-lived "Original Idol" (a.k.a. "Classic Idol") WIDLXWISTD series was a cynical attempt to cash in on the fading Idol cachet without actually committing, using cheaper materials & generic hardware. "Cynical"? Here's an Amazon.com listing:
Quote
The Idol has been in the Washburn lineup since the '90s a testiment to its staying power, desirability and status amongst players of all levels. With its bold single cutaway style and dual humbucker layout, the Original Idol provides a stylish alternative to the cookie cutter guitars that litter the musical landscape. When you choose an Original Idol you make a statement that you're not just an ordinary guitar player and you've got something to say.
Another from Sweetwater --
Quote
Since the 1990s, Washburn's Idol lineup has been tearing up stages around the world. With the WIDLXSPLTD Original Idol, Washburn gives you a chance to own their first-gen-style solidbody electric guitar in all of its glory. If you're the kind of guitar player who's looking to break the cookie-cutter mold of passe solidbody designs, then it's time to call your Sweetwater Sales Engineer...
Can you imagine Fender deciding to end production of the Strat or Tele or Precision or Jazz? Will Gibson maybe end the LP or SG or 335? Yet time & again some new gaggle of non-guitarists buys the Washburn offices & kills off bankable success in favor of making a quick buck before pawning the brand off on someone else even more clueless.

Look how far traffic has declined on this site in the past five years alone. Seems like half the "members" to sign on since 2011 only hang around long enough to learn they haven't bought some super-valuable axe for $100. ::) Washburn is being forgotten except among the hardcores, & the day when catalogues featured dozens of big-name endorsers seem long past.

Oh, there's an upside: why should I even think about buying a NEW Washburn electric when there's so many great used ones drifting past, their asking price generally depressed by the brand's protracted suicide? The Idol series managed to provide just about anything from a good beginner guitar to some serious limited-run glory, & should have been a long-lived gem for the brand.

In another thread, I added to that --
Not everyone wants to looks like just another speed-metal teenager.  ::)

Instead of one Parallaxe after another, I'd hoped the new owners of Washburn would've gone back & cherrypicked a few models from (say) MG, BT, X, & WI, & gone seeking after endorsements & media exposure -- wow, remember the catalogues from the '90s & all the celebrity endorsers they used to have??  :o

IMO, the BT series was poorly marketed, & the X series was dragged down by the glut of X-10. At their peak, the Idols offered a nice range, IMO competing nicely with Epiphone LPs & SGs yet possessing unique touches, & the Tele-style WI-36 was an ingenious twist -- if they'd also done an s-s-s, it could've been an "evergreen" line.

When the spalt-top Idols appeared, I hoped this was a sign they were about to reinvigorate the "original Idol" line, but... alas.

12
Announcements & News / Re: Shut It Down
« on: April 08, 2018, 03:20:47 PM »
I think y'all mean moderator:) But, yah, I know what you mean.

I signed up six years back, & even though the place was a-hopping compared to NOW, even then I could see where it was a ghost of its former self.

Some people date the decline from when Rudy rolled Washburn into USMC (late 2002). I can see the point, & that IS when the excellent Maverick (BT) line was discontinued. :(

But I place it at the day Rudy sold USMC to JAM, officially August 24, 2009. The effects weren't fully felt until 2010, demonstrated by the cancellation of most guitar lines: Tabu, WV, Dan Donegan, Scott Ian, Nick Catanese, X Series, original Idol (WI), & most acoustics (D-, F-, J-, WB-).

Then in 2012 the Mundelein offices were closed, including the Custom Shop, & customer service went down the sewer. Someone told me there was a skeleton crew that tried to field calls as best they were able, but often knew little about the company or its products, & JAM really didn't give a damn about legacy stuff.

This site qualifies as legacy stuff. Feels as though it's being left to starve until it's empty enough to easily advocate pulling the plug.

I'm combing through & archiving some of the bits I've posted here, parts of which may find their way into Vintage Guitar & the Blue Book & Wikipedia & places like that.

13
As for "value," it's a good beginner instrument. Yours appears to be in good condition, & the MIJ doesn't hurt, but the fact is that very few modern instruments will be worth their original Suggested Retail Price in less than a century -- most, in fact, will never reach 40% of MSRP.

For country/folk instruments, those that hold good value tend to be the models with higher levels of decoration -- distinctive inlays, fancy binding, rarer wood -- or higher-quality hardware.

And unlike solid-body electric guitars & basses, acoustic instruments are highly subjective & can vary widely even between "identical" instruments.

Let me look to the market. At the moment, a new "beginner" tenor can be had for about USD $250. However, those are open-back, & yours has a resonator -- those are in the $500-$600 (street price, not MSRP) range. Once the repair/replace warranty expires, used value will be roughly $200-$300.

Once again to your B-10T. All in all, for insurance purposes a replacement value of USD $250 is not unreasonable. However, if by "value" you mean "what can I get for this on Kijiji," $250 is possible, but it will probably have to be a good-sounding instrument & have been properly adjusted by someone who knows a lot about banjos.

14
Washburn Parallaxe Series / Re: Grover locking tuners on PXL10EC
« on: March 29, 2018, 01:16:41 AM »
Guitarists are pretty much gullible. Many believe that there is silver content in their "nickel silver" frets. ::) Of course, they probably also believe they can get lead poisoning from getting poked with a pencil... :(

The problem is that the term "locking tuners" has two meanings. Nowadays, people think of some sort of mechanism in the string peg that locks the string in place, preventing slippage.

But the term is much older, & I think originated with Grover. What THEY are referring to is an "anti-backlash" design of the gears, which greatly reduced the slippage of the basic worm-&-gear design. Per Wikipedia --
Quote
...if the lead angle is small, the gear's teeth may simply lock against the worm's teeth, because the force component circumferential to the worm is not sufficient to overcome friction. ... Worm-and-gear sets that do lock are called self locking, which can be used to advantage, as when it is desired to set the position of a mechanism by turning the worm and then have the mechanism hold that position. An example is the machine head found on some types of stringed instruments.

All Rotomatics are of this improved design, therefore all Rotomatics are rightly called "locking."

15
FWIW, the "Washburn PRO" engraved-style plate is what I have on the Bantam BT-3 & BT-6 next to me, so in use at least ~1996-2000. The previous plates were that "cast look" style. The Bantams came after the Mercurys, with the remaining Mercury line cancelled 1996.

In any case, still very unlikely that anyone sane is going to counterfeit a mid-range 1990s import.

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